ISVs and Desktop Flash Apps.
Kevin Werbach posted this comment in reply to my earlier post about Flash as solution to cross-platform desktop apps:
So, why do you think these developers don't use Flash today? Lack of awareness, cost, performance, missing features, compatibility, bad associations from cheesy animated Website intros... or something else? I know Flash has significant support from ISVs and platform vendors, but not the boutique tool creators.
I'm pretty close to the issue and will offer up a few comments. Hopefully Kevin Lynch or others from Macromedia can chime in on their blogs, too. Here's a shortlist:
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Yes, lack of awareness. Flash MX is a year into the market, and it definately takes a long time for platforms and brands to be established and re-defined. However, at the same time, Flash continues to gain awareness as a cross-platform app environment for browser contained applications, and industry analysts generally consider Flash the leading rich client today. Very few ISVs realize how deep the Flash runtime is in terms of its programming model -- for example, very few people realize that 80% of Internet desktops have a runtime that can do real-time messaging, and multi-way audio and video, APIs that are native to Flash Player 6.
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Cognitive Dissonance. This is what Kevin calls "bad associations from cheesy animated Website intros". Like it or not, Flash cut its teeth in motion graphics and animation, and over the past few releases evolved into an application platform. That brand and association is widely accepted. As a result, software developers generally filter out Flash from their architecture considerations because of this history. But in the early 1990s the same could be said for Windows (buggy desktop shell for DOS), and through many releases, broader and better tools, and focused marketing it became established as the premier desktop software platform.
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Deployment Limitations. Flash's primary runtime container is the browser today, and for ISVs building desktop applications that is a limitation. While there are many third-party products for building desktop-contained and integrated Flash applications, they are not well known in the ISV community. The original vision behind MX was for Flash to evolve outside of the browser, both on the desktop and devices. Macromedia continues to make great progress on that, so ISVs should keep a close eye on the Flash runtime container model.
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Programming Model. Today, building Flash applications requires a hybrid left-brain/right-brain skill-set. That's reflected in the nomenclature and workflow of the Flash IDE, which uses concepts like Movies, MovieClips, Timelines, Symbols, Layers, etc. in addition to classic software programming concepts like Components, Objects, XML, ECMAScript, and Web Services. Macromedia understands the diversity of developer types, including pure ISV-style application developers, and will surely deliver the right range of products to better optimize development workflow.
In my new role at General Catalyst, I've had the opportunity meet with ISVs who've built Web application front-ends. Most of them have standardizead on Internet Explorer 5.5 on Windows and the DHTML object model therein. The apps look and behave OK, and I'm sure they had lots of pain getting it all to work. I invarably introduce the concept of Flash as a rich client, and it's striking how few are aware of what Flash has evolved into, but all are receptive to the opportunity.
[Jeremy Allaire's Radio]
My rebuttal here is subtle and will probably be missed by most people - but I feel like I HAVE to say this:
- I'm pretty close to these issues too and I want to help out my friends at Laszlo Systems, so here goes
- Notice how Kevin Lynch or Jeremy never mention Director? I wonder why? It has a much more sophisticated and full IDE than Flash - has had that for years, yet it was Flash that was pushed by Macromedia. Why? Because it was initially small and vector based, which was ideal for the straw sipping web. OK - I can accept that. Broadband is JUST getting here now - and this whole thing started back in 1995.
- Now here we are years later - they've got a great installed base, yet their Flash MX IDE is shall I say politely - a kludge at best. This is the point that Jeremy et al seem to miss. It's NOT the sort of thing you'd want to build an RIA-anything with.
- There's a Flash add-on platform called Laszlo - which DOES enable real programmers to both leverage the Flash platform and provide an IDE that IS ideal.......and are you ready for this? It has been funded by Catalyst - Jeremy's VC fund!
- BUT - Jeremy has kept ties to Macromedia - and they realize - that they need something like Laszlo and..........well I'll just stop there.
- Meanwhile from a marketing POV Jeremy and Kevin are rolling out the concept of rich media apps - to enterprise and telling them to use the Flash MX environment. Ugh! It's gonna scare people away and continue the cognitive dissonance! Jeremy may THINK that folks can grok programming concepts (like components, Objects, XML, ECMAScript, and Web Services) within the Actionscript universe, but it's an insult at best! NOBODY SHOULD BE ASKED TO USE Actionscript to do that! CHECK OUT LASZLO - NOW!
- If Jeremy thinks todays ISVs are having a hard time building RIAs with D HTML and IE5 - he should go and try to build one of those things with Flash MX! His Audioblogging tool is cute, and a GREAT example of what's possible, but far from a full, rich, feature filled product. Hacking all that with the MX product line puts an image into my mind of all these Marcromedia product boxes, connected together by kite string and bubble gum.
- Sorry to sound rude - but it's true. And it's not my fault. Everyone should go check out Laszlo - if you're interested in building these sorts of things. And what makes this REALLY weird - is that Jeremy - as a Catalyst partner - should also be pushing Laszlo - but he hasn't UP UNTIL NOW! Shame on you!
- As long as this state prevails - the ignorance as to the capabilities and possibiltiies of rich media apps - will stay that - ignorance. I don't think it's a matter of deployment limitations. Macromedia has done a world class job of making Flash what it is today. That hegemony goes back to Jamie Fenton and the original MacroMind team. The problem is with what they have to sell right now, how they sell it and what they charge for it. The Flashcom server is a perfect example. Incredible product, incredible possibilities, completely wrong model and pricepoint.
- Look at how they're pricing the Presedia product. $12,500 for 100 users. It's like it's 1998 again. Right product, incredible opportunity, completely wrong pricing model.
- IMHO
